Be respectful of others' views and choices.
 #82745  by SR9
 
Yeah, I see. It's the case of while you're watching the right hand (HB 35), they slip HB 58 in with the left hand. Crafty!

I have read the bill and am against it from top to bottom, but I did notice it allowed for "permanently altered magazines that will hold 10 rounds or less" The key word is "permanently", meaning that they could not be modified back to hold original amount of ammo. I went ahead and bought 2 mags. that are 10 rounder factory mags for my 9MM before the s--t hits the fan and you can't find any. If this bill is killed (opps did I say killed), I will have 4 mags the hold a total of 54 plus 1 in the tube.
 #82754  by stephpd
 
Note this bill applies to handguns too. So if you have a handgun that holds more then 10 rounds you can no longer carry it legally. You could still own them, as a grandfathered item, but forget about carrying. Also I'm not sure how one gets the firearm and magazine to the 'range' for practice since you can't have them both at the same time when traveling.


Really bad law.
Seems to me to go against Heller and the 'in common use' definition too.
 #82816  by Gotarheels03
 
stephpd wrote:Note this bill applies to handguns too. So if you have a handgun that holds more then 10 rounds you can no longer carry it legally. You could still own them, as a grandfathered item, but forget about carrying. Also I'm not sure how one gets the firearm and magazine to the 'range' for practice since you can't have them both at the same time when traveling.


Really bad law.
Seems to me to go against Heller and the 'in common use' definition too.
This. Precisely this. I carry my Walther PPQ most of the time these days. 15 round mags, though I do own one 17 round mag. I don't own a single 10 rounder nor do I expect to be able to find any.

I think there's an exception for going to and from the range, but what happens if you stop for gas? Grab a bite to eat with your buddy after? or do anything other than go directly from home to range, range to home?

There's also another issue. Would this ban, if passed, give LEO's probable cause to stop anyone who they see carrying in order to check that they have a "legal" mag? I would think so.

Grab a gun catalog these days from a major company. Sig, Glock, S&W, H&K, Springfield Armory. I'd venture to guess a huge percentage of the guns hold more than 10 rounds standard. That said, I don't necessarily have faith in the courts to find 10+ round mags are protected because they're "in common use."
 #83738  by brich2929
 
And no provision for CCDW holders.
 #85299  by Owen
 
Email exchange re HB58 w Rep. Short's aide
RE: Please oppose HB58

Thank you for contacting Representative Short with your position on HB 58. He voted against releasing the bill from committee and will vote against it, as written, when it comes to the House floor for a vote. Your position is very important to him. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

If you have further questions on this or any other State of Delaware matter, please do not hesitate to contact him.

Kay Wilson
Legislative Aide
Delaware House of Representatives
Minority Caucus
(302) 744-4033 Dover
(302) 577-8399 Wilmington
Kay.Wilson@state.de.us
My initiating email (sent to all on the committee).
From: Owen
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:43 AM
To: Short, Daniel (LegHall)
Subject: Please oppose HB58

Dear Representative Short,

Please oppose HB58 to limit magazines from their standard capacity to only ten rounds. This is a bad bill. It will encourage and embolden criminals because they will know that they have the upper hand simply by using standard capacity magazines. Why are you trying restrict my ability to defend my self and my family contrary to the Delaware Constitution?

The Delaware Constitution Article 1 section 20 states:
"A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use."

This is the crucial point. Criminals don't follow laws restricting gun use. I have seen first hand that they posses magazines of more than ten rounds. Why should I be outgunned by the bad guys? Please support my families safety and oppose this bill.

Highest Regards,

Owen
 #85318  by Boots
 
After HB58 left the committee I sent the following to all house members...
Some Reasons to Vote ‘NO’ on HB58:
  • 1) HB58 will not limit criminal access to any magazine, either standard capacity, or high capacity. Criminals will use stolen magazines or merely purchase them in states where they are not restricted. Easier to get than illegal drugs!

    2) Only citizens--your neighbors--will be prevented from adequately defending themselves from criminal attack while away from their home.

    3) Criminals seldom work alone and will be embolden to attack poorly armed citizens whom they will know to be restricted by law. Forced to face several well-armed criminals with only 10 rounds is a recipe for disaster.

    4) Self-defense is a human right, and the ability to do so while properly armed is protected by the U.S. and Delaware Constitutions.

    5) This bill will not prevent mass shootings or even limit the number of deaths, as claimed. This bill will have no effect on how well the shooter is armed.

    6) Citizens, unable to adequately defend themselves, are more likely to wind up dead, or in the hospital severely injured.

    7) HC58 makes no allowance for DE citizens with a Delaware issued CCDW, or any other recognized concealed carry license for non-residents.

    8) Constitutional challenges to this law should be expected as free people are unwilling for their rights to be taken away by meaningless and unconstitutional laws.
Some points to consider:

Standard capacity magazines are being misidentified as “high capacity”.

Standard size semi-auto handguns such as 9mm typically come with standard capacity magazines that contain 12 to 19 rounds. These magazines are designed to fit within the pistol grip of the handgun.

Most semi-auto firearms are sold with two (2) standard capacity magazines that hold over ten rounds. Easily, there are at least 400 million over-ten-round magazines in this nation.

So-called crime statistics that report mass shootings involving “high capacity” magazines are usually referring to firearms that only contain their original standard capacity magazine of over 10 rounds.

Defining a “high capacity” magazine as one that holds more than an arbitrary number, such as ten, is specifically designed to make most standard capacity magazines illegal.

HB58 is unenforceable as is and would require magazine registration. This is not acceptable to a free people.

Since the magazine is an integral part of the gun, restricting magazines is gun restriction. And, magazine registration is de facto gun registration.
My comments to the committee on May 1, 2013 follow. Obviously my comments, like those of many others, fell on deaf Democrat ears:
Re: HB58, Bill to Limit Magazine Capacity

Many thousands of your DE neighbors have obtained a CCDW license and carry daily for personal protection. There is no way to predict when or where someone might need to defend their life with a firearm, so our only choice is to always be prepared, while praying we never find ourselves in that situation.

Criminals do not obey the law and are seldom alone. When we are accosted by evil, how many criminals will we face? Will the magazines in their guns meet Delaware’s requirements? In all probability, they will not.

If magazine capacity is restricted, only law-abiding and responsible citizens will be affected and put at a disadvantage. Gun laws like this endanger all law-abiding citizens and embolden the criminal. Criminals will always find a way to get and use whatever gives them the upper hand.

Laws like this are why crime is so rampant in cities like Chicago, Washington DC, Camden, NJ, and Newark, NJ. In these cities the rights of citizens are infringed, and criminals are encouraged and embolden. These cities serve as a warning that we must avoid the path they have taken regarding gun control.

I ask this committee to defeat HB58 to protect the rights of our citizens, and to keep Delaware safe for our children and our grandchildren.

Thank you,
Name & city
 #85319  by Strelok
 
Owen wrote:Email exchange re HB58 w Rep. Short's aide
RE: Please oppose HB58

Thank you for contacting Representative Short with your position on HB 58. He voted against releasing the bill from committee and will vote against it, as written, when it comes to the House floor for a vote. Your position is very important to him. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

If you have further questions on this or any other State of Delaware matter, please do not hesitate to contact him.

Kay Wilson
Legislative Aide
Delaware House of Representatives
Minority Caucus
(302) 744-4033 Dover
(302) 577-8399 Wilmington
Kay.Wilson@state.de.us
Got the same email from Kay today...
 #85320  by brich2929
 
Strelok wrote:
Owen wrote:Email exchange re HB58 w Rep. Short's aide

Got the same email from Kay today...

Same here.