If you have a particular encounter with another citizen or LEO, post it here.
 #32448  by Boots
 
After about a year of going to Middletown's Levels Road Dog Park OC with my dog, I was involved with Middletown Police responding to a MWAG call. They detained me for about 30 minutes and disarmed me. I told them I knew of no laws that prohibits my carrying my firearm there, and there is nothing posted. After a bunch of phone calls they said I would have to leave the park and I'd get my gun back.

I was positive I was doing nothing wrong, but they claimed to be enforcing Middletown's Ordinance 109-13 regarding no guns in the park. This was news to me and I asked them when this law was passed because I wondered if it was before or after the State's limitation in 1985...
Title 22. Municipalities
Chapter 1. General Provisions
111. Limitation on firearm regulations. The municipal governments shall enact no law, ordinance or regulation prohibiting, restricting or licensing the ownership, transfer, possession or transportation of firearms or components of firearms or ammunition except that the discharge of a firearm may be regulated; provided any law, ordinance or regulation incorporates the justification defenses as found in Title 11. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to invalidate municipal ordinances existing before July 4, 1985, and any ordinance enacted after July 4, 1985, is hereby repealed.
They didn't know anything except it was in their book and they were enforcing it. So, I told them I would do some research and check it out.

So, does anyone know anything about Middletown's 109-13?

I believe these cops were just doing their job and enforcing a Middletown Ordinance. However, I need to know for sure regarding the enforcability of this law, or it's legality, before going back to the dog park; it may have been automatically repealed by the state law. I don't have time to research it right now, but perhaps I can do so tomorrow. Any help on getting the correct info regarding this would be much appreciated. :mrgreen:

PS - No, this is not an April Fools joke. ;)
Last edited by Boots on Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #32459  by Tony T
 
Let us know if you need anything. Maybe we should contact John Thompson.

I wish Delaware had the same professional standards as Pennsylvania with respect to their yearly MPOETC bulletin. PAFOA had some success getting open carry added to the bulletin.
 #32468  by stephpd
 
My goggle fu isn't working well tonight. All I could find is their web page, but the ordnance page lacks any link to their current codes.

http://www.middletownde.org/
 #32478  by Boots
 
stephpd wrote:My goggle fu isn't working well tonight. All I could find is their web page, but the ordnance page lacks any link to their current codes.

http://www.middletownde.org/
Thanks for the link. I've tried your link and every other way of googling the web without any success. This may take some digging.
 #32487  by SugarBoy13
 
Sorry dude. I was unsuccessful in finding any Middletown, DE city ordinances. They apparently do not publish their ordinances online. I would question this at one of the council meetings.

In the meantime, I suggest stopping by one of the libraries or the police station to request a copy of all city ordinances.
 #32490  by Boots
 
Sooo... While waiting to get an answer regarding Middletown's 109-13 to see if it's valid, and knowing that there was no law against OCing in a NCCo Park, I thought I'd take my dog to the Iron Hill "Bark Park" today.

I had OC'd at Middletown's Levels Road dog park for over a year without a problem, so I didn't expect what happened my first day at Iron Hill....

We were at the dog park about an hour; I had a very pleasant conversation with a guy named Frank and gave him a DELOC.ORG card. As I was backing out of the parking space a County cop car pulled up and blocked my way. This time no one said I was 'detained', and I didn't ask, but again they were polite and courteous. They knew that what I was doing was not illegal, but I got the "we could charge you with disorderly conduct" speech again. :roll: (read: not that the charge would stick, but it would be expensive to defend.)

They knew all about the incident yesterday at Middletown's park (from the county radio?) and it seemed they wanted to know 'why I was doing it again'. I explained that the incident yesterday concerned a Middletown ordinance that I had never heard of before and I wasn't going back there until I had a chance to learn more about it. However, this is a County Park and I knew there was no prohibition here.

"However, citizens that call 9-1-1 about a MWAG don't know that."

"That's true," I said, "but you know it's legal. And citizens that call in should be told that."

Anyway, because of the 9-1-1 call, they claimed they needed to make sure I was not a 'person prohibited', and that my weapon was 'not stolen'.

They asked for ID and I verbally answered. However, they wanted to see my DL 'to make it easier' and I hesitated doing that until I realized I was 'in my car backing up' when they first pulled behind me, so I gave them my DL. They also got the s/n from my weapon and ran that 'to see if it was stolen'. I trust my name and weapon s/n are not going into another illegal Delaware database.

They had no RAS; should I have handled this differently? Was I intimidated by the "we could charge you with disorderly conduct" claim?

Yesterday, the Middletown police claimed to have a Middletown Ordinance to enforce, which I'm in the process of checking on, but what about the NCCo cops today? Should I have demanded a RAS and detainment before letting them check my gun?

When it was suggested that I get a CC license, I replied that a license was not needed for OC, but I did have one. Then, they wanted to see that too! Why? "To see if it's valid", ... even though a license is not needed for OC? :roll: Sheesh!...

I never wanted to be involved with an in-your-face "Park OC Crusade", and I try to fly 'under the radar' as much as possible, so why am I writing this? To vent a little frustration, and to let others know what might happen if they are ever in a similar situation.

I have no problem with cops doing their job, but it's apparent they don't like OC and have no interest in informing MWAG callers of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Delaware's Constitution.

I try to do everything legally, but I wish I could avoid the unnecessary hassles. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Sorry this is so long... :mrgreen:
 #32494  by scampbell3
 
Seeing how the weather is getting warm, I suggest that those of us who have companions of the four footed type, we should have a DELOC dog walk at the parks.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

It seems to me that this calls for some "on-the-radar" response

Chip
 #32496  by SugarBoy13
 
scampbell3 wrote:Seeing how the weather is getting warm, I suggest that those of us who have companions of the four footed type, we should have a DELOC dog walk at the parks.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

It seems to me that this calls for some "on-the-radar" response

Chip
Agreed. Although, I believe, pets should be optional and video-recorders shall be mandatory. This is nothing short of harassment in both cases.

I think we also discussed having an OC barbecue at one of the NCC parks this summer as well.
 #32497  by stephpd
 
Actually not long enough.

Granted they could demand your DL since you were driving and they blocked your car. Or maybe not, I won't challenge that.

Did they 'take your gun' while checking the s/n? Does sound like they may still be using the database for illegal purposes. Thought that those records were supposed to be destroyed. Sounds kinda fishy to me.

Disorderly conduct is pure bull :censored: . Since OC is legal it can't be illegal.

As far as not helping by informing the public that's pretty much the response I got from the DSP as well. Don't know how we can help in changing that problem, though I'm open to ideas.

As to RAS and the rest it really depends on the individual and how much you want to stand up for your rights. But the demand for the CCDW is more :censored: , not that I would have volunteered that information. But I would expect more of this type thing since now you are on their radar.

So you can hide your gun and your rights, or stand on principle. I'm betting they would prefer the former. Me, I'd choose the latter. But it's your choice.