Of course, this is Monday morning quarterbacking but, by discussing these kinds of encounters here allows all of us to get better at them. Kudos to Boots for posting this and letting us all add our couch-based observations!
And with that...
And with that...
Boots wrote:Sooo... While waiting to get an answer regarding Middletown's 109-13 to see if it's valid, and knowing that there was no law against OCing in a NCCo Park, I thought I'd take my dog to the Iron Hill "Bark Park" today.Overall, I thought you handled it very well! And it gave us another scenario to think about.
I had OC'd at Middletown's Levels Road dog park for over a year without a problem, so I didn't expect what happened my first day at Iron Hill....
We were at the dog park about an hour; I had a very pleasant conversation with a guy named FrankProbably some NARC that has been assigned to follow you. and gave him a DELOC.ORG card. As I was backing out of the parking space a County cop car pulled up and blocked my way. Like it or not. You have just been detained. This time no one said I was 'detained', and I didn't ask, but again they were polite and courteous.
Since it was quite obvious that they planned on detaining you by blocking your car, I would have pushed the issue by asking "Am I being detained Officer?" as soon as they began their probing questions. They may question you but, unless they have reasonable suspicion that you had or may have been in the process of committing a crime, they can't justify detainment. This is why we ASK? Force the issue and make them answer that it is a detainment. Otherwise you are consenting to them holding you without RAS. If they say "No" then ask if you are free to go.
They knew that what I was doing was not illegal, but I got the "we could charge you with disorderly conduct" speech again. (read: not that the charge would stick, but it would be expensive to defend.)
Although it would have been very difficult for me to do so, keep your mouth shut and just ignore the comment. They have to have intent before they could charge you with that and actually have it stick. It was a scare tactic and total BS and if they do charge you with it, demand that they bring you immediately before the magistrate. I bet it would be thrown out in no time.
The fact that you are OCing is not reason enough to justify detainment, let alone charge you with disorderly conduct.
They knew all about the incident yesterday at Middletown's park (from the county radio?) and it seemed they wanted to know 'why I was doing it again'. I explained that the incident yesterday concerned a Middletown ordinance that I had never heard of before and I wasn't going back there until I had a chance to learn more about it. However, this is a County Park and I knew there was no prohibition here.
They probably heard about it over the radio or during a briefing for that shift and either assumed it was you or were fishing to find out. I doubt they knew it was you until you said something. Another reason to just STFU and don't answer their probing questions. They're playing gotcha games...
I'm not sure how being linked to the incident in Middletown would effect your case but, it is always better to STFU and not volunteer anything. If they have a question that is outside the Name, Address, Destination, Business Abroad, you are not required to answer. It may be better to just not say anything other than the BIG 4. However, if you feel you must say something, here are a few that I have heard from others: "Officer, I don't have to answer that" or "I am not going to answer any more questions Officer" or the TV series favorite but not recommended "I plead the 5th."
Remember, anything you say can and will be used against you. What you say to them will NEVER and can NEVER be used to defend you. So why give them more than they need...
"However, citizens that call 9-1-1 about a MWAG don't know that." So?!?!
"That's true," I said, "but you know it's legal. And citizens that call in should be told that." Good for YOU!
Anyway, because of the 9-1-1 call, they claimed they needed to make sure I was not a 'person prohibited', and that my weapon was 'not stolen'.
BS. I bet they needed your permission first, didn't they...If they really thought you were a person prohibited, they would not have needed to ask for permission before proceeding to drop you and your dog to the ground.
They asked for ID and I verbally answered. Whooo Hoooo! However, they wanted to see my DL 'to make it easier' and I hesitated doing that until I realized I was 'in my car backing up' when they first pulled behind me, so I gave them my DL. DOH! It wasn't a traffic stop so, they didn't need to see your license. Personal preference here. I would not have, like I'm really concerned about making it easier for these guys to find something to bust me on...They also got the s/n from my weapon and ran that 'to see if it was stolen'. I trust my name and weapon s/n are not going into another illegal Delaware database.How did they get the s/n off your gun?
They had no RAS; should I have handled this differently? Was I intimidated by the "we could charge you with disorderly conduct" claim?
Yesterday, the Middletown police claimed to have a Middletown Ordinance to enforce, which I'm in the process of checking on, but what about the NCCo cops today? Should I have demanded a RAS and detainment before letting them check my gun?YES!
When it was suggested that I get a CC license, I replied that a license was not needed for OC, but I did have one. Then, they wanted to see that too! Why? "To see if it's valid", ... even though a license is not needed for OC? Sheesh!...Chaulk this one up as another example of why you should STFU. The hole just keeps getting dug deeper...
I never wanted to be involved with an in-your-face "Park OC Crusade", and I try to fly 'under the radar' as much as possible, so why am I writing this? To vent a little frustration, and to let others know what might happen if they are ever in a similar situation.
I have no problem with cops doing their job, but it's apparent they don't like OC and have no interest in informing MWAG callers of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Delaware's Constitution.
I try to do everything legally, but I wish I could avoid the unnecessary hassles. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Sorry this is so long...
Chris
Newark, DE
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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Newark, DE
_________________
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine